On line bond trading

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  • edited September 1
    Yes, there should be such. Now almost everything is solved via the Internet. I remember how my friend wanted to learn how to trade, but was afraid of making a mistake and did not know where to start. I have read a lot of information about different strategies and how it works in general. He told me that he came across a website on the Internet and according to him there are the best free stock trading apps. Six months passed and he was able to buy a good car. I'm also thinking of selling and buying shares, I saw that it could be profitable.
  • "I saw that it could be profitable"

    "could" being the operative word.

    What's the saying? When everyone and his friend tells you how easy it is to make money in the stock market, that's when it's time to get out (or something similar).

  • Coming up to a month since we wrote to ii about online dealing in accrued interest investments.

    They have advised us a couple of times during this period that the matter has been referred to the appropriate department, but we are still waiting for their comments and/or a decison as whether they can solve the problem

    They have also pointed out more issues they would have in solving the problem - but, of course all that is water off a duck's back to us, as other brokers ( in particular EQi ) managed to solve it. So to our mind it isn't "the problem" it's"their problem".

    However, we are waiting to hear what they finally decide.

    We like most other aspects and features of ii but feel very strongly about the need to telephone in order to deal in our current and future investments

    Their recent refusal to sell AXI has also irritated us, particularly as others appear to allow this.


    In the meantime we have been looking at Hargreaves Lansdown with whom we were with a few years back, and think we may well transfer back to them if we decide to move from ii

    We are also wondering whether their current friendly and prompt answering of queries and their reasonable charge structure (for us, for online deals) will start to change when they are a public company and the staff become more bonus driven - or maybe we are being cynical

    The Wozzes


  • Between the lines it seems all the brokers have been taken to task with regard to their compliance over "complex instruments". I'll have to use the term "complex" loosely as for the life of me I don't understand why bonds are seen as more risky than equities in terms of investor protection but the FCA seem to think differently.

    Over the last few months I've had to re-do all my assessments with both HL and AJ Bell.

    It seems some of the brokers are more up for this than others. I'm not sure why because it's can't be it much work to put a test on a website and keep the answers. It's not like there is any other cost because nothing has to be evidenced.
  • Many thanks, Wozzes, for the update and your thoughts. I've been reasonably happy with the II experience so far (although I am still waiting for a reply to a query about an ISA dividend that appears to have had a tax deduction!). The charging structure works well for me as I tend to accumulate interest and dividend payments each month sufficient to take advantage of the monthly trading credit so reducing my charge to an effective £2 per month (and £7.99 is less than the old £10.99 Eqi charge anyway). I note that the bonds that were available directly on-line rather than by telephone still do appear to be available so I'm happy to stick it out for the time being.
  • Following a chaser from us, ii have just replied saying that their exisisting policy re the accrued interest investments still applies, but they would let us know if this changes in the future

    We replied saying although we like their website and the prompt replies to our queries (apart from this one of course, but we were hoping they were using the time to seriously investigateit - naive aren't we ?), and reinstated our comment that we find it difficult to understand why EQi could do it but ii can't.

    We also said that we shall now start to look for other brokers in order we can transfer out for free during our 6 month grace period following transfer from EQi

    So - I think Hargeaves Lansdown will be our first port of call - we were with them a few years ago but when we decided to go down to one broker rather than two, we decided to remain with Selftrade (as EQi was then)

    We would still appreciate it if anyone else with a gripe regarding this with ii, would write to them - it will take a while for us to evaluate other brokers (we had already started in fact), and we don't want to cut off nose to spite our face and/or unnecessarily burn bridges etc etc

    It is probably going to boil down to an evalauation based on how often we perceive needing to trade in these in the future, and whether we can just let most of them just roll on to maturity

    We would also appreciate any comments or suggestions as to suitable brokers that haven't already been mentioned above

  • Once again, Woz, thanks for the update. I seem to hold very similar views to yours. However, I now have a further gripe in that the eventual answer to my 'deduction of tax' query included the response that "We have no obligation to put in place paperwork to receive the payments gross upfront - as long as customers receive the tax back by one means or another than we have fulfilled our obligations". Hardly the finest example of good customer relations but, in fairness, this does, so far, seem to have been an isolated example.
    Next time I receive a 'not available on-line' message for something I'm looking to purchase I will add my request for them to provide a proper service, as well.
  • I have been with ii for many many years, but now have also noticed a lot of bonds are telephone trading only, which has caused me to miss quite a few trading opportunities.
    I am therefore also looking to change provider for my ISA as I have quite a few bonds and PIBS. Reading the rest of the thread am I correct in thinking that Hargreaves Lansdown are the ones which allow most online bond trading? Any other suggestions?
  • I do use HL but also use iDealing.com.

    Never had a problem with them. In the rare case where I've had to telephone (dealing in bigger amount than available on-line or trying to get within the spread) they answer quickly and have only ever charged the same as for on-line dealing.

    They do charge for withdawing cash/dividends/coupons though (which HL don't) so that might be a consideration.

    But they're not Hargreaves Lansdown so I always hesitate to "recommend" them.
  • I finally got set up with LSE (jarvis) (see my previous comments under Crest Transfers) however i am still stuck with Interactive for my pibs and funds LSE wouldn't accept......... .I tried interactive for some prices for Bristol Water, Bristol and West B.S and Northern Electric, however I was unable to deal on line for any of them so from my point of view it's goodbye to them for any fixed income stock. All these were available to me through LSE, however it might be worth looking at XO (also Jarvis) with cheaper fees. Details mentioned in the Crest Transfer Thread. Such a shame that some brokers are treating fixed income as a speccial knowledge case whereas equities in my opinion are far more dangerous
  • Thanks for the answers. Think i will have a play around with Hargreaves Lansdown just because I know the name and feel comfortable with security/reputation. Will test ii again to see if any changes have been made to online bond dealing, but if things stay as they are, then I will switch across as I cannot stand telephone dealing (and charges).
    Only positive with ii is that I was unable to sell some bonds due to phone only dealing, which effectively forced me to keep them, but luckily they are much higher now :) But I need the speed/flexibility of online bond trading so will ultimately move away from them.
  • Well ii replied to us pretty much straight away when we said we were looking elsewhere .....saying they are sorry to see us go, and if we need any further help etc etc. Standard reply by the look of it.

    Sent a list to Hargreaves Lansdown today of all the fixed interest related investments we hold, plus a few we may purchase in future

    Had drafted up an email to send but then (ironically) had to telephone them to find their email address.

    (They did have an online email form though, to be fair ! )

    Colin - how long did your transfer out of ii to LSE take ?






  • I would be interested to know what they come back with Wozzitworthit regarding the list. Keep us updated :)
  • Just tried some dummy trades on ii and for some reason most seem to be tradeable online again. Only one that was set to phone trading was IPF. Aviva and RSA PIBS i got quotes, same with Enquest, Burford, Provident. Hmmm
  • Woz, the transfer took about 3 weeks
  • Was just about to report that ii showing loads of tradeable FI stuff this morning, but I see AJR already spotted that - as you say ..Hmmmm...!

    Colin - thanks for that info
  • Curiouser and curiouser! I have just done some dummy trades as well and find that my now available on-line trades are at the beginning of the alphabet - AlphaPlus, Burford, ICG - but no change for some later on - Paragon3, Wasps. Could it be that in spite of the lukewarm response previously given by customer services the upper echelons of II have realised that some action was needed and they have set the technical side to the task without telling the front-line staff? The very poor response to my query about tax deductions masked what I think was just a one off problem so I am hoping that the overall problem with II is not with systems but more with communications.
    Or perhaps I'm just an hopeless optimist!
  • Having worked in similar places many years ago, i think it's just the case of "somebody" flicking a switch on their side to enable online dealing. I could just be that somebody on shift has flicked a few on without realising....
  • Have just purchased 5,000 1SBB at 98.75p and 4,000 66WS at 100p from ii on line. Both are top-ups to what I/we already hold

    1SBB will almost certainly be called in August 2024 and the YTM is a smidgen over 5%. If they aren't then the interest then changes to
    5 year gilt plus 4%, so a bit of protection thereif rates do rise

    66WS mature in October 2023 and will pay 5.125% until then, hopefully

    We held 1SBA and PF21 previously so these purchases partially offsets what we held with One Savings Bank and Provident Financial

    Tempted to go a bit further but will sit on our hands for a bit !!
  • Here is a link to the bonds, PIBS, Prefs HL offer.
    https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/corporate-bonds-gilts/bond-prices/gbp-bonds

    Things to note
    1. If the arrow isn't green on the right hand side it's phone dealing only. Phone dealing is 1%, minimum £20, maximum £50, so realistically £50 for a £5k+ deal
    2. Some of the bonds on phone dealing are in large size. 50k, 100k or 200k
    3. If the bond or PIB is not settled through CREST HL may let you sell but not buy. In practice there are a few PIBS in this category but I don't own any so can't advise.
    4. The list doesn't seem to be reguarly maintained to me

    I don't often phone deal with HL because the excessive cost pushes me towards other instruments. I have found their phone dealing a bit frustrating. Some of the dealers are incredibly helpful, others definitely are not. If you get the wrong dealer on a busy day on the markets, getting a good price becomes difficult.

    In summary if it's phone dealing it's likely because the mimimum size is 50k+, it's not settled through CREST or it's incredibly illiquid


    Additionally, HL charges for open ended funds are obscene so if you portfolio contains any of those, HL may not be the place for you.
  • Colin, or anyone else who has transferred out from Interactive Investor (ii)-

    After the transfer process has been initiated

    1) Can you still trade ?

    2) Can you transfer cash out ?

    Obviously there has to be a cut off point if either or both of the above actions are permitted - if that was the case, then presumably ii gave you a date ?

    Most brokers say they will initiate the transfer process once new accounts are set up with them, but did you communicate with ii before as well ?

    I may well contact ii to ask same questions, but would appreciate views from those who have actually been through the process before I do


  • Woz, My situation with with II is I still have accounts for myself and my wife containing funds and the Leeds and Skipton pibs that couldn't be transferred to London South East.I have not fully closed the II accounts at this moment due to the recent downturn in the market and what to do with the Fidelity ,Invesco, Axa Framlington funds with them. I can still transfer cash between II and London South East. However I shall 'have to bite the bullet' and sort this sooner rather than later.
    It's the lack of online bond/ pib dealing that really frustrates me with II and the need to sometimes move things quickly . I notice some lines in the fixed intrest market are moving fairly quickly this last week
  • Colin

    Thanks for quick reply

    I am just about there as far as finding out what I can and cannot trade online with Hargreaves Lansdown.

    However, as you have observed, some lines in the fixed interest universe are already starting to slip, so I am currently selling off some of those whilst I can get reasonable prices. It would be good to try and time the transfers after I have done all the necessary pruning of course - we'll see !!

    Just an aside - I did a telephone trade with ii to sell some longer dated bonds - what a performance - the dealer was helpful, polite and all those good things, but I couldn't understand a lot of what he was saying and he had to repeat himself seveal times. It sounded like he was using a mobile in a bad signal area in an empty , slighty echoey room

    They did though honour a verbal agreement I had set up just after transfer, of only being charged the online fee raher than the full monty for telephone trading, for stock that I transferred from EQi.

    I'll post my findings ref what HL can - at the moment - offer for online trading in the next couple of days or so

    Woz
  • In our quest for a new broker, we seem to be homing in to Hargreaves Lansdown

    We thought we had closed our accounts with them 5 or 6 years ago but were surprised to find they were still accessible (but completely empty of stock or cash) and after adding the extra security HL now have at the logging in stage, we were able to re-kindle them.

    We transferred a load of dosh to one of our non-ISA accounts and carried out some dummy trades - i.e got right through to the real time price and then just let it time out

    We were able to get on line quotes for dealing in all of the following (typically about £5k worth)

    BOI,1SBB,MBSP,MBSR,CEBB,NOTP,42TE,66WS,AGT1,ALP2,BEL1,BRU2,BUR1,BUR2,BUR3,CAF1,DSCF,ENQ1,GHT2,GSHT,HT02,ICG3, IPF2,LIV1,LIV2,MCP2,PAG3,PFP2,RGL1,DNA2,NWBD,NTEA,RAVP,STAB,RE.B,BWSA,BWRA and ..AXI

    INVR and NBSR went straight to a dealer screen where you could (similar to EQi) leave it with them for a day (with various options)

    We queried 42TF - they came back to say they are available to trade, however, we couldn't get very far with attempting an on-line purchase - we have learnt from another HL customer that these are usually telephone only.

    We also queried SBSA - they say we can hold ,but it is telephone dealing only and we will not be able to trade online - but then they added "it is worth noting that it will be availablefor sales only on the platform"

    Obviously the above status can change at any time but the coverage seems good enough for us to go ahead with the transfer (99.5% sure as I type this)

    Hope this helps anyone else thinking of moving

    The Wozzes

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